NVA, Diego nardi e gli Audioti

......no è l'aria fritta....ma de che stamo a parlà,........eddai!!

poluca ha scritto:......no è l'aria fritta....ma de che stamo a parlà,........eddai!!

Non so'... forse dei vecchi e bellissimi condensatori variabili lamellari in aria delle radio valvolari!
Ciao Mauro

Eeeeeh, ridete, ridete, cari miei....

Sorry for late reply as I have been Christmas shopping to Oxford Street and then some nice BBQ duck in Chinatown, just got back.

Anyway there seems to be a fascination in the LED dropper resistor. I presume some of you understand what happens to a voltage dropper resistor. The power that is being dropped most go somewhere, and it goes to heat. So if you put heatshrink over the resistor firstly it will stop the resistor dissipating that heat and will likely burn, and secondly if placed over the wires again you lose heat dissipation from the wire. Plus it seems no one here seems to understand class 2 construction, it means double insulation not triple as that is unnecessary. The anodising on the heatsink is one insulation and the acrylic case is second insulation. Also the resistor is in the air above the heatsink and will stay there as the wires holding it are rigid, so there is another insulator which is air.

Regarding metal, every manufacturer has his ideas and foibles, they may be right and they may be wrong, but there is an English expression "that the proof of a pudding is in the eating", so it is very easy to see if you agree with my design choices, and that is buy an amplifier, and if you don't like my choices send it back for a refund. Anyway there is lots of metal in the amplifier, as every component has metal leads, every wire is made of metal, PCB tracks are metal, even solder is metal, heatsink has to be metal, all of those are unavoidable and good. All I object to is ferrous cases that contain the field generated by circuits and transformers. If a field is blocked it doesn't dissipate it reflects and mixes with new field and creates harmonic patterns that interfere with the music. It is much better to let the field out to dissipate naturally. This makes the unit more susceptible to field getting in, but this is only a problem with a phono amplifier.

I think the root of your lack of understanding is down to two things 1/ I strive to keep things simple as anything in the signal path gets in the way of the music 2/ I use class 2 IEC electronic regulations, which none of you seem to understand. For instance with class 2 I have to use a fixed mains lead.

Someone commented I think that the circuit is complicated and uses a lot of transistors, again little understanding. A large number of those transistors are in the current mirror, which means the voltage rails track each other automatically so there is no bias set-up or circuit voltage drift over time and temperature. So they are not in the signal path, so the gain circuit is still simple. Think of them as a form of regulation. You also have to take into account that the circuit is designed to be used with a passive pre-amp, so there is more voltage gain than usual in the power amp.

I think that covers everything so far, but I am obviously open to more questions.

Hello Mr. Dunn and welcome in the T-Forum!!!
Many of forum's peoples are DIY and homemade amplifiers and other audio electronics: We do non comment about the very hight quality sound of your amplifiers, we have same perplexity for the assemby methods looking internal photos of your amplifiers.
Why You do not use isolating copper wires? why flying wires?
we like to see more electrical security in commercial electronics around transformers and power supply.
Thank's Mr. Dunn and excuse for my bad english

piero7 ha scritto:
La mia presunta rudezza viene dal solito king of polemica che l'ha buttata in vacca, e non contento, è andato pure ruffianeggiare,

Per favore evitiamo di esprimere pubblicamente giudizi personali su altri utenti.

aris69 ha scritto:Hello Mr. Dunn and welcome in the T-Forum!!!
Many of forum's peoples are DIY and homemade amplifiers and other audio electronics: We do non comment about the very hight quality sound of your amplifiers, we have same perplexity for the assemby methods looking internal photos of your amplifiers.
Why You do not use isolating copper wires? why flying wires?
we like to see more electrical security in commercial electronics around transformers and power supply.
Thank's Mr. Dunn and excuse for my bad english

I think I explained about the wires, and I don't understand why you think they are insecure. There is much lack of knowledge about cable effects. For example wiring looms are used in commercial products and one of the worst effects on the music is close proximity of cables in a wiring loom. All you have to do is listen, and if the system and the amplifier are capable of showing the difference you will hear it clearly if you break and separate the wiring loom into separate wires.

What is insecure with the transformer, it is more secure than with a bolt. Basically you just don't understand what is holding it and unless you witness it yourself you will not know. The transformer is held in place and potted with rubber adhesive compound which covers the whole transformer and seals it in place both internally in the centre and externally on the perimeter and also dampens transformer resonance. To break the hold those transformers have on the base plate you would need to break the base plate if you don't know how to do it.

There is some very simplistic thinking going on here. What makes you think something is wrong just because other manufacturers do it differently. EVERY single change and design in NVA amplifiers is based on listening tests and we test things other manufacturers don't do, we make thing *differently* to other amplifiers, that is why we are different and think we are better. If people like you were the only people in the industry how would we have progress. Progress only comes from lateral thought and doing things differently.

I am only here because someone has decided to insult me and my products, I care not if you are a electronic DIY forum or a forum for transvestites, I answer people who try to draw me into conflict with lies and misinformed statements.

Richard Dunn ha scritto:


There is some very simplistic thinking going on here. What makes you think something is wrong just because other manufacturers do it differently. EVERY single change and design in NVA amplifiers is based on listening tests and we test things other manufacturers don't do, we make thing *differently* to other amplifiers, that is why we are different and think we are better. If people like you were the only people in the industry how would we have progress. Progress only comes from lateral thought and doing things differently.

I agree.


Despite of the reasons which led you to answer here, your answers is very interesting for me.. So thank you, and Merry Christmas , mr . Dunn

Richard Dunn ha scritto:... "that the proof of a pudding is in the eating"...

I think this is just the fact of the matter, especially when considering that this thread is inserted in a "general hi-fi" section and not in a "diy" section.
In the present case, however, it seems also very suitable another Italian expression that states: "it is useless to give the pudding to the donkey".

In any case, I'm glad that Richard wished to write here, because his answers are clear from a technical point of view, but they are especially enlightening with regard to his design philosophy where music listening has always the last word. It is my personal opinion that this is distinctive of a true hi-fi designer with respect to a generic electronic designer.

I will not deny that over the past 12 years the NVA amplifiers always remained the backbone of my different hi-fi systems.

Ciao, Siro

sc_ita ha scritto:In the present case, however, it seems also very suitable another Italian expression that states: "it is useless to give the pudding to the donkey".

Ma non era..."perle ai porci"?

Per le prossime segnalo anche "smacchia' i giaguari" e "asciuga' gli scogli"

Buon Natale a tutti

Non dimentichiamoci " è come una confettura in bocca a un somaro"!

fritznet ha scritto:

Richard Dunn ha scritto:


There is some very simplistic thinking going on here. What makes you think something is wrong just because other manufacturers do it differently. EVERY single change and design in NVA amplifiers is based on listening tests and we test things other manufacturers don't do, we make thing *differently* to other amplifiers, that is why we are different and think we are better. If people like you were the only people in the industry how would we have progress. Progress only comes from lateral thought and doing things differently.

I agree.


Despite of the reasons which led you to answer here, your answers is very interesting for me.. So thank you, and Merry Christmas , mr . Dunn

Absolutely agree.

Se mi permettete una considerazione, però, noto un accanimento sarcastico (con tanto di foto di fascette e guaina ed altre amenità simili, nonchè frasette gratuite e ridanciane) che lo stesso Quality Sound ha ricevuto solo dopo un bel pò di tempo dalla sua apparizione qui....
Siamo sicuri di non aver del tutto perso la misura delle cose?

Richard Dunn ha scritto:
I think that covers everything so far, but I am obviously open to more questions.

One more thing: Merry Christmas, Mr. Dunn!

porfido ha scritto:Se mi permettete una considerazione, però, noto un accanimento sarcastico (con tanto di foto di fascette e guaina ed altre amenità simili, nonchè frasette gratuite e ridanciane) che lo stesso Quality Sound ha ricevuto solo dopo un bel pò di tempo dalla sua apparizione qui....
Siamo sicuri di non aver del tutto perso la misura delle cose?

Hai ragione ...l'accanimento è decisamente fuori luogo .... ma io non avrei nemmeno accostato NVA a Quality Sound

Richard Dunn ha scritto:

aris69 ha scritto:Hello Mr. Dunn and welcome in the T-Forum!!!
Many of forum's peoples are DIY and homemade amplifiers and other audio electronics: We do non comment about the very hight quality sound of your amplifiers, we have same perplexity for the assemby methods looking internal photos of your amplifiers.
Why You do not use isolating copper wires? why flying wires?
we like to see more electrical security in commercial electronics around transformers and power supply.
Thank's Mr. Dunn and excuse for my bad english

I think I explained about the wires, and I don't understand why you think they are insecure. There is much lack of knowledge about cable effects. For example wiring looms are used in commercial products and one of the worst effects on the music is close proximity of cables in a wiring loom. All you have to do is listen, and if the system and the amplifier are capable of showing the difference you will hear it clearly if you break and separate the wiring loom into separate wires.

What is insecure with the transformer, it is more secure than with a bolt. Basically you just don't understand what is holding it and unless you witness it yourself you will not know. The transformer is held in place and potted with rubber adhesive compound which covers the whole transformer and seals it in place both internally in the centre and externally on the perimeter and also dampens transformer resonance. To break the hold those transformers have on the base plate you would need to break the base plate if you don't know how to do it.

There is some very simplistic thinking going on here. What makes you think something is wrong just because other manufacturers do it differently. EVERY single change and design in NVA amplifiers is based on listening tests and we test things other manufacturers don't do, we make thing *differently* to other amplifiers, that is why we are different and think we are better. If people like you were the only people in the industry how would we have progress. Progress only comes from lateral thought and doing things differently.

I am only here because someone has decided to insult me and my products, I care not if you are a electronic DIY forum or a forum for transvestites, I answer people who try to draw me into conflict with lies and misinformed statements.

Thank's for your patience Mr. Dunn!!

I'm too lazy to go back and count how many people who wrote in this topic really listened to any NVA amplifier.
Surely I trust the friends who several times in the past warmly suggested me to consider buying one of them.
And I honor the competence of Richard Dunn and his guts to step into this arena

porfido ha scritto:Se mi permettete una considerazione, però, noto un accanimento sarcastico (con tanto di foto di fascette e guaina ed altre amenità simili, nonchè frasette gratuite e ridanciane) che lo stesso Quality Sound ha ricevuto solo dopo un bel pò di tempo dalla sua apparizione qui....
Siamo sicuri di non aver del tutto perso la misura delle cose?

E' sottinteso che la mia idea me la sono fatta e l'offerta e' sempre valida.

Stentor ha scritto:

porfido ha scritto:Se mi permettete una considerazione, però, noto un accanimento sarcastico (con tanto di foto di fascette e guaina ed altre amenità simili, nonchè frasette gratuite e ridanciane) che lo stesso Quality Sound ha ricevuto solo dopo un bel pò di tempo dalla sua apparizione qui....
Siamo sicuri di non aver del tutto perso la misura delle cose?

Hai ragione ...l'accanimento è decisamente fuori luogo .... ma io non avrei nemmeno accostato NVA a Quality Sound

E' chiaro che vengono accostati solo per il trattamento ricevuto, Stentor, a prescindere dalle motivazioni che lo hanno generato.

Smanetton ha scritto:I'm too lazy to go back and count how many people who wrote in this topic really listened to any NVA amplifier.
Surely I trust the friends who several times in the past warmly suggested me to consider buying one of them.
And I honor the competence of Richard Dunn and his guts to step into this arena

Absolutely true.

Richard Dunn ha scritto:
I am only here because someone has decided to insult me and my products, I care not if you are a electronic DIY forum or a forum for transvestites, I answer people who try to draw me into conflict with lies and misinformed statements.

You wrong Mr. Dunn! The only one used words like "ignorant" and so on are you. In this post no one said to you: ignorant.

Don't forget that the author of the article about your amp is not here, his name is Diego Nardi, and he never said you are ignorant in his article. I invite you (once again) to buy the Costruire HiFi magazine and read carefully what Nardi says, instead of talking about vague theories... You're not the only manufacturer in the world of hifi equipment, and no other manufacturer in the world use fliying wires like you.

Your theories about the resonances are just your opinion, not an universal law. Even we are just diyer, we also have two ears, and we can use them as well as you do mr. dunn. We here do not talk about how your amp sounds (even some user said it's lack of low frequencies). Your amp, how it is realized, is poor amp, with a poor power supply, mounted into a (poor) case made by an hobbistic diyer, wired near to be ridiculous. This is *obviously* my 2 cent. May I have an opinion watching the photos of your amp, even you'll not like it, and not be labeled as ignorant Mr. Dunn?

Anyway, merry xmas mr. Dunn

P.S. Could be possible to see the schematic diagram of your amps? Or is a secret? And what kind of material you use for it? I'm really curious to know your point of view about selected transistors, quality of resistances and caps and so on...

piero7 ha scritto:

Richard Dunn ha scritto:
I am only here because someone has decided to insult me and my products, I care not if you are a electronic DIY forum or a forum for transvestites, I answer people who try to draw me into conflict with lies and misinformed statements.

You wrong Mr. Dunn! The only one used words like "ignorant" and so on are you. In this post no one said to you: ignorant.

Don't forget that the author of the article about your amp is not here, his name is Diego Nardi, and he never said you are ignorant in his article. I invite you (once again) to buy the Costruire HiFi magazine and read carefully what Nardi says, instead of talking about vague theories... You're not the only manufacturer in the world of hifi equipment, and no other manufacturer in the world use fliying wires like you.

This is not true, in my humble opinion....
Nardi insulted in several pages Dunn, his products, the people who buy them and NVA commercial policy....
Of course he didn't use words heavier than "audioti" (audio idiots) but for sure used tons of sarchasm on several pages of the only italian magazine for audio diyers!
The same we did here, with tons of free sarchasm and laughing, didn't we?
So let's try at least not to be too hypocritical....

As far as the not insulated wires, I think it depends on what these cables are doing in the amp.... Take a look at some signal cables in Peter Daniel amps, like the Patek, for example.... Daniel says he leaves them not insulated because air is the better dielectric....

porfido ha scritto:...Nardi insulted in several pages Dunn, his products, the people who buy them and NVA commercial policy...

I completely agree with you!
SC

porfido ha scritto:Of course he didn't use words heavier than "audioti" (audio idiots) but for sure used tons of sarchasm on several pages of the only italian magazine for audio diyers!

eppure questa parola così sgarbata e inopportuna è presente sul nostro forum e lorda ogni singolo post di questo 3ad.

porfido ha scritto:

piero7 ha scritto:

Richard Dunn ha scritto:
I am only here because someone has decided to insult me and my products, I care not if you are a electronic DIY forum or a forum for transvestites, I answer people who try to draw me into conflict with lies and misinformed statements.

You wrong Mr. Dunn! The only one used words like "ignorant" and so on are you. In this post no one said to you: ignorant.

Don't forget that the author of the article about your amp is not here, his name is Diego Nardi, and he never said you are ignorant in his article. I invite you (once again) to buy the Costruire HiFi magazine and read carefully what Nardi says, instead of talking about vague theories... You're not the only manufacturer in the world of hifi equipment, and no other manufacturer in the world use fliying wires like you.

This is not true, in my humble opinion....
Nardi insulted in several pages Dunn, his products, the people who buy them and NVA commercial policy....
Of course he didn't use words heavier than "audioti" (audio idiots) but for sure used tons of sarchasm on several pages of the only italian magazine for audio diyers!
The same we did here, with tons of free sarchasm and laughing, didn't we?
So let's try at least not to be too hypocritical....

As far as the not insulated wires, I think it depends on what these cables are doing in the amp.... Take a look at some signal cables in Peter Daniel amps, like the Patek, for example.... Daniel says he leaves them not insulated because air is the better dielectric....

il sarcasco è cosa completamente diversa dal dire: sei un idiota! Ma questo è un problema di Nardi (che da dell'audiota a chi va dietro a certe filosofie) e di Mr.Dunn che da dell'idiota ai suoi interlocutori.

Porfido, non giriamo intorno alle cose: non esiste, se non nel dilettantismo acuto, lasciare cavi volanti. Daniel lascia i cavi scoperti (che sono rigidi e non cavetti molli come quello che va al led con la resistenza lasciata volante da dunn) e portano il segnale. Anch'io che non sono nessuno uso cavetti non isolati: ma per il segnale! E non per lasciarci tensioni (basse o alte non fa differenza) in giro scoperti...



Non confondiamo cavetti che portano il segnale, e che se vanno in corto non succede niente, e cavi con una tensione che se vanno in corto, qualcosa di brutto, succede